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mitt romney called paul ryan today as well, wished him luck. both sides gearing up for this. you mentioned that achille's foot. some analysts say in this kind of format, the vice president won't slip up. >> in debates, particularly against sarah palin four years ago, he was pretty disciplined. i think republicans would be unwise to count on a biden gaffe occurring during this debate. >> senior democrat told me a short time ago where the vice president does get in trouble is not in this format, but a tv interview and he starts winding around and telling a long story and goes off message. another thing to watch tonight is that this is not just domestic policy like the first debate. it's foreign policy as well. that terrorist attack in libya could come up tonight for the first time in one of these debates. >> shep: yeah, i would be surprised if it didn't. what's the obama campaign telling you about the strategy and taking on congressman ryan? >> they're saying to me in private that he's not really just taking on congressman ryan. the plan, the strategy is to go after the top of
mitt romney called paul ryan today as well, wished him luck. both sides gearing up for this. you mentioned that achille's foot. some analysts say in this kind of format, the vice president won't slip up. >> in debates, particularly against sarah palin four years ago, he was pretty disciplined. i think republicans would be unwise to count on a biden gaffe occurring during this debate. >> senior democrat told me a short time ago where the vice president does get in trouble is not in...
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that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those six studies were blog posts or op-eds and one of them was paid for by romney for president, inc. that's the most elegant mendacity i've ever seen, isn't it? >> i would love to have their campaign promote my blog. if each post is a study, you can really get on a roll there. i'm really glad you're spotlighting this, martin, because this is the biggest problem they have on the domestic front. they've outlined these 20% cuts for everyone, that's a 20% cut in taxes for the 1%, and then they've said but don't worry, it's not really going to cut the taxes on the ric
that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those...
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and ryan are talking about? and i think that's part of what the president needs to be doing. i think it's what the campaign is doing here in this ad is to say, if you're going to make this cut, let's talk about the reality of what that's going to mean for people. you want to, you know, go invade iran, okay. are we all ready to see more caskets coming into dover, delaware? are we really ready to send men and women in uniform to another front in the war? you're going to make all of these cuts and how is that going to add up? it's not going to add up. here are the places where those cuts are going to have to come from. i think bringing it back to real terms, because, again, i think romney won't have the answer essentially. david is right. he has 9 top line -- >> i don't agree with you. romney's answer is very clear, ask me on the 7th of november. >> his answer is always no, it's not. >> exactly. >> because i said to. >> karen, david, and richard, thank you both. thank you all. next, paul ryan can't stand the heat a
and ryan are talking about? and i think that's part of what the president needs to be doing. i think it's what the campaign is doing here in this ad is to say, if you're going to make this cut, let's talk about the reality of what that's going to mean for people. you want to, you know, go invade iran, okay. are we all ready to see more caskets coming into dover, delaware? are we really ready to send men and women in uniform to another front in the war? you're going to make all of these cuts and...
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romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's vote. with this walkback, this attempted and failed walkback that happened within the last 24 hours from the romney campaign, do you think that's going to have an impact there? >> yeah. there's some interesting data that came out in the last few days which i think is what was initially behind what mitt romney said, taking a more moderate position on abortion. first you had this poll that came out in ohio, showing obama ahead of romney by four. the gender gap in this thing was astounding. among men, romney had a 16-point lead in ohio. among women, 60-38, obama. that is like a 38-point gender gap. i have not seen someth
romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's...
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joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> thanks for the translation. okay. >> malarkey. a bunch of stuff. i love it. i love it. biden systematically took apart ryan's arguments for less government, let's accountability, let's community. it got so bad, paul ryan was driven to drink. literally. he went back to that cup of water over and over again. by our last count, at least 21 time. what's the matter there, mr. ryan? got a little cotton mouth? last night the romney/ryan effort was exposed as a shield for the extreme far right and vice president biden drove that point home again and ag
joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >>...
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if i were the romney/ryan campaign i would probably try to trash that reporter too. but that wasn't all that happened here. >> if you take a look at the gun laws we have, i don't think president obama is proposing more gun laws. we have strong gun laws. >> that's news too. it's especially news in light of the fact that it the nra is currently running these ads in a bunch of swing states. it's a huge ad buy too. they say chipping away at your right, chipping away at your freedom. now they are attacking our second amendment rights. you can stop them right now. defend freedom. defeat obama. that's what the ads say. but then there's paul ryan, the republican vice presidential nominee saying president obama is not proposing any attack on gun rights. he's not proposing anymore gun laws. that's true. the only gun-related changes in law we have had from president obama have been expansions of gun rights. but the republicans are not supposed to admit that. not when the nra is running this scary ad campaign saying otherwise. and not when the republicans own candidate has a gun
if i were the romney/ryan campaign i would probably try to trash that reporter too. but that wasn't all that happened here. >> if you take a look at the gun laws we have, i don't think president obama is proposing more gun laws. we have strong gun laws. >> that's news too. it's especially news in light of the fact that it the nra is currently running these ads in a bunch of swing states. it's a huge ad buy too. they say chipping away at your right, chipping away at your freedom. now...
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isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that prove things? that's hilarious. >> why doesn't the plan add up? why doesn't his so-called plan for america, the 20% cut, add up? where's the flaw? >> well, it does add up for the very rich. if you listen very carefully to what romney always says, he says he's going to cut rates 20% and then he's going to see to it that those at the top don't pay a larger share of the total tax burden. well, that means that they're going to get a huge decrease in their tax bill. that's the important element. that is the ryan/romney plan, it is to create dynastic wealth which i think would be devastating
isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that...
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. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand by what i said, whatever it was. >>> we are pumped up, fired up, and jacked up with just hours until tonight's first and only face-off between vice president joseph biden and vice presidential nominee paul ryan. and what was once regarded as a popcorn side show has taken on far greater significance in the wake of the president's less than scintillating performance last week. democrats are anxious, republicans are hungry for a surge, and as ryan and biden take the stage tonight, they have a chance to influence this election at a volatile moment. and the president himself knows he's got to push harder against his ever-shifting rival. speaking just moments
. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand...
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the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in future shows. joe biden also dipped paul ryan in tar and rolled him in feathers on the issue of the stimulus. and mr. ryan's supposed principles on that issue. we talked about that moments ago with chris hayes. but there are two things that i think are hugely important to the presidential campaign that happened last night. two things that i, frankly, never thought we would get to. and that we got to and, boy, howdy, is this new territory. first was this. >> you asked, do i feel free? let me put it to you this way. i earned capital in
the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in...
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ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is going to be is to try to create a split, is try to put him in an awkward position, make him defend one or the other. i think one thing to watch for tonight is it's my understanding -- from when i was talking to the campaigns, if they get one thing out of biden tonight, the obama campaign, that is to make the base of the democratic party feel better tonight, that he gets a little aggressive, that he goes after some core issues like abortion, like contraception to make the base feel better. on the ryan side, they know they sort of have in a weird way they
ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is...
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unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have seen about undecided was done by any major network was cbs and it was pretty clear who won the debate amongst uncommitted voters, ryan 31%, biden 50%. he smashed him which was my reading of it in the moment. >> look, people are voting right now in ohio. so if you've made up your mind in ohio and you watched last night's debate, you were energized and went out to the polls and voted, that makes an impact on the election. governor romney can't win without ohio. there are, there is a narrow sliver of voters that are still in play in some of these states. i thin
unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have...
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romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger finish, as the independent spoke earlier said, and i thought joe biden came across as having more experience and very aggressive, but over aggressive. he was not professional. he was not using decorum. a thought the moderator using the system, the format she used, seemed to interrupt ryan much more often than riot -- and biden, not letting him finish his statements. that bothers me. overall, i thought ryan had a great finish. he had a strong closing statement. i thought, overall, he did a much better job portraying himself as presidential. a polite young man. a very p
romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger...
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or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that is, you know, part of what the american people need to decide on, whether or not they want a budget that protects tax cuts for those at the top but is cutting education, and veterans and clean energy, innovation, infrastructure, turning medicare into a voucher program. those are the types of choices that the meamerican people have before them and that will be part of the discussion tonight. >> you said earlier today, stephanie, that paul ryan and mitt romney are politicizing the attack in benghazi that killed our ambassador there. the republican national committee re
or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that...
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romney ryan were down 4 to romney biden but now they were up 12 with 44 percent with democratic side 32 percent. another key number are the voters were unsure they want somebody else. that number shot up 6 points after the debate. the debates have the potential to move the needle quite a bit. with four weeks to go joe biden has been prepping for his in delaware with chris van holland playing ryan. the president handicapped tonight's big show down. >> joe just needs to be joe. congressman ryan is a smart and effective seeker but his ideas are the wrong ones. >> ryan has a chance to let voters decide for themselves. he had ted olsen as a stand in. he is trying to shine the spos spotlight on to someone who won't be on the stage tonight, president obama. >> what i am excited about we get to offer the american people a very clear choice. joe biden has been on these big stages before. it's the my first time. he can't run away from president obama's indefensible record. >> in kentucky they will debate at center college. it will have a broad spector of foreign and domestic issues supposed to
romney ryan were down 4 to romney biden but now they were up 12 with 44 percent with democratic side 32 percent. another key number are the voters were unsure they want somebody else. that number shot up 6 points after the debate. the debates have the potential to move the needle quite a bit. with four weeks to go joe biden has been prepping for his in delaware with chris van holland playing ryan. the president handicapped tonight's big show down. >> joe just needs to be joe. congressman...
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six studies say the romney/ryan math adds up. the talking point's been so great that a top romney adviser took it for a spin over to the home field this weekend. and he wasn't expecting this. >> six different studies have said this is entirely doable. >> that wasn't the question. some of them are blog and independent groups. >> these are very credible sources and -- >> one of them is a from a guy who -- a blog from a top adviser to george w. bush. these are hardly nonpartisan studies. >> chris, i think if you look at harvard and aei, they are very credible sources. >> you wouldn't say that aei is a conservative think tank? >> it's a light leaning think tank but that doesn't make it uncredible. >> it doesn't make it partisan. >> two blogs from the conservative think tank, american enterprise institute. another nonpartisan study is from the conservative think tank, the heritage foundation. their own website said that it's a paper written by, ready for this one, a former bush adviser. study number five, five says -- is written by "t
six studies say the romney/ryan math adds up. the talking point's been so great that a top romney adviser took it for a spin over to the home field this weekend. and he wasn't expecting this. >> six different studies have said this is entirely doable. >> that wasn't the question. some of them are blog and independent groups. >> these are very credible sources and -- >> one of them is a from a guy who -- a blog from a top adviser to george w. bush. these are hardly...
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how ryan prepped for the big night, and what are the main goals for romney and ryan's camp? what are they, and what do they want to say? let's go to robert costa from the national review online danville, cnbc contributor. the debate sunday way. bob costa as you talked to the romney/ryan people today, what phrases jump out? what do you think he wants to get across in at least a minimal way? >> they want to defend mitt romney's positions. they want to go after the obama economic record and reach out to new voters, especially view the voters who may find ryan appealing >> i keep talking about this youth thing. i think what ryan represents as a well-informed smart 42-year-old guy and does his body crunches and listens to music on his ipod and so forth, i think that's a tremendous plus for romney, i really do. there's his picture up there. i think, you know, the youth vote is shifting to romney. it's not going to be like it was in 2008. >> that's exactly right, larry. one thing the ryan camp has pushed hard for is to have this debate be a sit-down debate and once he sits down at
how ryan prepped for the big night, and what are the main goals for romney and ryan's camp? what are they, and what do they want to say? let's go to robert costa from the national review online danville, cnbc contributor. the debate sunday way. bob costa as you talked to the romney/ryan people today, what phrases jump out? what do you think he wants to get across in at least a minimal way? >> they want to defend mitt romney's positions. they want to go after the obama economic record and...
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of medicaid. >> romney/ryan tax plan will raise taxes on middle-class families with a child, one or more children by an additional $2,000 a year. >> don't tell me what you value. show me your budget and i'll tell you what the value. >>> vice president biden will have some serious things to say this thursday. joining me is steve carnaci, co-host of "the cycle. he's writing in "salon" today about paul ryan's thing skin. thanks for coming on the show. >> thanks for having me. is he ready for joe biden? >> it's an open question. one thing we found is he hasn't been ready forred kind of scrutiny that comes with a national spot light. there have been several interviews, in what we all assumed would be friendly turf fox news where at the slightest bit of scrutiny on follow-up questions he's gotten very testy and evasive. you can think of early on back in august in an interview, how long it would take mitt romney's budget to be balance. he said i don't want to be all wonky on you, but i don't know. and chris wallace started grilling him, a promise it will be deficit neutral and very vague p
of medicaid. >> romney/ryan tax plan will raise taxes on middle-class families with a child, one or more children by an additional $2,000 a year. >> don't tell me what you value. show me your budget and i'll tell you what the value. >>> vice president biden will have some serious things to say this thursday. joining me is steve carnaci, co-host of "the cycle. he's writing in "salon" today about paul ryan's thing skin. thanks for coming on the show. >>...
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that's what happened the middle of our day with ryan, when a pew research poll showed the romney/ryan ticket in the lead. >> everybody says that the polls are skewed one way. >> reporter: a recent poll has come out that shows romney in front. how do you feel about that poll? >> he got a good bump out of the debate. >> reporter: you're saying you believe that poll? >> yeah. >> reporter: the people in this room, it is indeed tempting to now believe these latest numbers. not everyone is ready to believe. >> the pew research poll shows romney in front now. do you think that poll's accurate? >> probably as accurate as any of them out there. >> reporter: you don't think there's a difference? >> no. >> reporter: this woman had one thought she very much wanted to express. >> i think the only poll that's going to count is the one on november 6th. >> reporter: you can argue with what many people here are saying, but you can't argue with that. gary tuchman, cnn, rochester, michigan. >> she's right about that poll. being the one that matters. michigan is tightening, you saw from the polling at th
that's what happened the middle of our day with ryan, when a pew research poll showed the romney/ryan ticket in the lead. >> everybody says that the polls are skewed one way. >> reporter: a recent poll has come out that shows romney in front. how do you feel about that poll? >> he got a good bump out of the debate. >> reporter: you're saying you believe that poll? >> yeah. >> reporter: the people in this room, it is indeed tempting to now believe these latest...
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and paul ryan would do if mitt romney is elected president. mitt romney has placed his arms around it and embraced the paul ryan budget plan and there are a lot of things the president didn't mention joe biden will focus on, starting with medicare. and then the 47% remark. i think you'll hear more about that tomorrow night and in the next debate. the president showed up last week for a news conference asking the questions but he was being presidential and didn't engaged his opponent. mitt romney showed up for a debate. i think the next time you see president obama, he'll come ready for a debate. >> here is he on the tom joyner radio show. he said he was too polite in last week's debate. let's listen to the president. >> i mean, you know, the debate, i think it's fair to say, i was just too polite. because, you know, it's hard to keep on saying what you're saying isn't true. it gets repetitive. the good news is, that's just the first one. >> is that the number one job of the president, to be the fact-checker, or is what you've done the last fou
and paul ryan would do if mitt romney is elected president. mitt romney has placed his arms around it and embraced the paul ryan budget plan and there are a lot of things the president didn't mention joe biden will focus on, starting with medicare. and then the 47% remark. i think you'll hear more about that tomorrow night and in the next debate. the president showed up last week for a news conference asking the questions but he was being presidential and didn't engaged his opponent. mitt...
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>> well, i think it's interesting that paul ryan said that if romney and ryan get elected they're not doing anything about reinstating don't ask, don't tell, which contradict what romney said during the debates, the primary and the promises he made to the gop base. i would like to see them pressed on that. you know, lgbt people we tend to see progress under democratic administrations and not a lot of regress, sometimes benign, sames malicious neglect under republican administrations. >> finally, for you, what sort of message would you extend to lgbt youth. >> coming out is not the end it's better problems. when you first come out parents react negatively. it's important to have a backup plan, line up support. 40% of homeless teenagers are lgbt kids kicked out or thrown out after they came out. if you think your family might react negatively, have a place to go, have support, have friends who have offers you a couch. >> prepare. >> prepare. don't just come out blindly. ask for your parents' love and support but have a plan, a backup plan. >> dan savage, thank you. thank you for your ti
>> well, i think it's interesting that paul ryan said that if romney and ryan get elected they're not doing anything about reinstating don't ask, don't tell, which contradict what romney said during the debates, the primary and the promises he made to the gop base. i would like to see them pressed on that. you know, lgbt people we tend to see progress under democratic administrations and not a lot of regress, sometimes benign, sames malicious neglect under republican administrations....
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the ryan/romney team would allow people vouchers. i imagine telling an 80-year-old to get on a bus and find someone to sell them a health inpolicy. that's not all of it. mr. romney, when you're not supposed to be listening to him, that's when you should listen to him. his condensation on seniors and social security, that they should take spoon buiresponsibi their lives. if you have a pre-existing health condition and don't have health insurance and now can't get it, well, sir, that was your decision. that's romney talking. obama stuck his neck out and rescued it. mr. romney said, let it take bankruptcy. this is the big drastic differences between these candidates and these debates should debate them. >> howard fineman, a political analyst and editorial director of the huffington post. he's here and rounding out our panel in kentucky is the pulitzer prize columnist eugene robinson. thank you for being with us. i want to start with chuck. your reporting, does it tell you that it's going to be a broad debate about philosophy and differe
the ryan/romney team would allow people vouchers. i imagine telling an 80-year-old to get on a bus and find someone to sell them a health inpolicy. that's not all of it. mr. romney, when you're not supposed to be listening to him, that's when you should listen to him. his condensation on seniors and social security, that they should take spoon buiresponsibi their lives. if you have a pre-existing health condition and don't have health insurance and now can't get it, well, sir, that was your...